Two congressmen, two very different visions
North Carolina Reps. Dan Bishop and Jeff Jackson are running for North Carolina attorney general. They offer dueling visions for the role of the state's top law enforcement officer.
Two congressmen are seeking to become North Carolina’s next top law enforcement officer: Republican Rep. Dan Bishop and Democratic Rep. Jeff Jackson.
And the differences in the race, both substantively and stylistically, couldn’t be more stark.
Bishop, a staunch ally of former President Donald Trump, has made the issue of immigration central to his campaign.
He argues Jackson would use the AG position as a stepping stone for higher political ambitions and would resist policies passed by Republican state lawmakers, just as Attorney General Josh Stein did in declining to defend the legislature’s 12-week abortion ban bill.
“They are all about setting up a policy counterweight to the legislature,” Bishop said. “It’s not only wrongful politics. It is a direct assault on our constitutional system.”
Jackson has built a strong social media following, including 2.2 million followers on TikTok, and has become a rising star in Democratic politics. He argues Bishop is too ideologically extreme and beholden to Trump to represent everyday North Carolinians.
“Dan Bishop is the most extreme candidate for attorney general in our state in my lifetime,” Jackson said.
I spoke with Bishop on Sept. 14 at the NCGOP’s headquarters in Raleigh and with Jackson on Thursday over the phone to get their thoughts on the state of the race and what voters could expect from them if elected. Here’s what you need to know…
Political ascent
For all the things that divide Bishop and Jackson, they share one thing in common: Rising up the political ranks amid controversy. And those experiences shaped who they are today and how they go about campaigning.
Bishop came to appreciate the perks of being an ally of Trump, while Jackson gained a media-savviness that he still carries today.
Jackson’s political rise came in 2014 after the mayor of Charlotte resigned after being charged with federal public corruption and bribery. When a state senator filled the mayoral seat, it was left to local Democratic Party officials to determine who’d be appointed to the legislature. The victor by a mere vote: Jackson.
Jackson discusses his political origins.
“I was sitting on the front row of a pew in this church in uptown Charlotte, which is where they had the special election where 49 people got to vote, and they said, ‘With 25 votes, the next state senator will be Jeff Jackson,’” he recalled.
“And I couldn't believe it. I gave a short speech and walked out in the hallway, and that was my first time really encountering press. I remember very well there were like three or four reporters there with cameras, and they just put those cameras right in my face and started asking a whole bunch of questions. I thought, ‘Well, this is what I asked for, right? So I better get used to it.’”
Bishop was put in the national spotlight in 2016 as an architect of House Bill 2, a now-defunct law that required North Carolinians to use restrooms at government buildings and public schools that corresponded with their sex assigned at birth. It’s a vote he told me still stands by.
But it wasn’t until a couple years later that Bishop would really find himself in an unusual spot.
Bishop describes an unorthodox congressional bid and the impact Trump had on the race.
A 2018 ballot harvesting scandal involving an operative for pastor Mark Harris prompted state elections officials to order a new election. Harris decided against running for the special election seat, prompting then-state Sen. Bishop to go on to win the race. His victory came in large part from the outsize political support he received from then-President Donald Trump.
“I didn't have a plan to go to Congress,” Bishop recalled. “I didn't have some long-term strategy or interest in it, so it was not a question of ambition for me. I seemed to be in a position to be able to reestablish confidence of the voter. And then, it was quite a whirlwind. We would never have gotten it done. It certainly wasn't just me. I had help from Donald Trump's White House in a way that was almost unprecedented. By then, I was coming into a situation where accusations were being made about election malperformance.”
Drawing the line
Perhaps the starkest contrast in the race is how the candidates see the role of an attorney general. While both said they would defend the state constitution, Bishop expressed far greater deference to GOP state lawmakers, whereas Jackson saw more wiggle room to push back on policies he could find unlawful.
Asked when he might refuse to defend a state law, Bishop replied, “That's a hard question to sort of imagine the hypothetical. If the General Assembly passed a law that declared the Governor's Office vacant, I would have to oppose that. Maybe there's some other example.”
Jackson, however, expressed far more openness to refusing to defend laws enacted by a GOP-controlled General Assembly.
Asked under what circumstances he’d refuse to defend a state law, Jackson replied, “There's only one line that can be crossed that would trigger that, and that is the constitutional line, either state or federal. It would have to be a clear violation of our constitution.”
I pressed him on whether he’d defend the state’s voter ID law and the state’s 12-week abortion ban. He answered, “Once the Supreme Court has ruled that something is constitutional, then it's no longer for me to say that it is not.”
He later noted there’s ongoing litigation over North Carolina’s abortion restrictions, thus meaning he doesn’t see the issue as settled.
“I think there will be a major distinction between my position on abortion and my opponent,” Jackson said.
Bishop called the 12-week ban “moderate.”
Extremism
Both candidates are trying to portray the other as too extreme.
For Bishop, that has meant presenting Jackson as weak on immigration and voicing concerns that an Attorney General Jackson wouldn’t defend a North Carolina bill (that will likely become law this year) aimed at cracking down on sheriffs in a handful of counties run by Democrats who decline or ignore requests from ICE to detain some suspects in jail for 48 hours until their immigration status can be checked.
“I will use the authority granted to me to see to it that if someone is recalcitrant about enforcing the law, I'll take action to see to it that that occurs,” Bishop said.
Jackson has presented Bishop as extreme by taking aim at the congressman’s loyalty to Trump and what he sees as a downplaying of the Jan. 6, 2021, attack from Trump supporters at the U.S. Capitol.
“His record is stuffed with extremist remarks and extreme stances,” Jackson said. “I’m scored in the top 5% for most bipartisan partisan members of Congress. He scores in the bottom 5%, which is to say the 5% most extreme. So there's a statistic for this before we even get into the picking and choosing of statements and votes.”
During his interview, Bishop condemned violent protesters and said they should be held accountable to the full extent of the law. But he also continually minimized the Jan. 6 attack.
Bishop discusses his views on the Jan. 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol.
Bishop accurately noted that Officer Brian Sicknick died as a result of two strokes on Jan. 7, 2021, which a medical examiner concluded was of natural causes. But Bishop failed to mention the view of opposing neurological experts who believe the stress from the day prior caused Sicknick’s strokes.
Bishop also questioned accounts of officers dying by suicide because of the trauma inflicted on them that day at the U.S. Capitol.
Officer Jeffrey Smith died by suicide on Jan. 15, 2021, less than 10 days after the attack on the Capitol. Little more than a year later, his death was ruled in the line of duty. Smith’s widow was also found eligible for a federal benefits program for the families of fallen officers made possible by a bill Bishop voted in favor of.
“No one's ever produced any evidence that [Sicknick’s death] was causally related [to the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol],” Bishop told me. “And then they suggest that police officers who committed suicide months and months later were somehow caused by January 6th. That is such a stretch.”
At the end of the interview, I gave Bishop a chance to clarify his remarks. He said he’d be a strong supporter of law enforcement if elected and added, “There may be some officer whose subsequent suicide had to do with the traumatic event of that day, but you can't assume it.”
Social media crackdown
Jackson reflects on his use of TikTok and the backlash to a vote earlier this year.
Bishop and Jackson are prolific social media users who utilize their platforms to express concerns with activities happening in Congress, particularly when an opposing political party pushes something they find objectionable.
But the two came out on opposite ends of a vote this year to ban TikTok in the United States if the company’s China-based owner (ByteDance) didn’t sell its stake. Jackson, who is arguably most known for his TikTok videos, faced instant backlash for his opposition to the bill. Many TikTok users saw Jackson as hypocritical. Shortly thereafter, he posted an apology video saying he didn’t handle the messaging well.
Jackson told me he regretted his messaging of the vote, but had no regrets about the vote itself. He said he wished he would’ve communicated to people before the vote that he supported Americans having access to TikTok, but wanted to ensure the company was divested from the Chinese government in order to protect consumers’ privacy.
“What I learned was if you're going to make a decision that's going to upset a lot of people, tell them in advance,” Jackson said. “People are pretty willing to hear you out up until they are really angry, at which point natural human instinct is to resist new information. The attempt to explain the difference between a ban and a divestment was not something I was going to be able to do after the fact. That, I think, I could have done before the fact. And I regret not seeing that at the time.”
Bishop opposed the bill out of concern the TikTok ban would infringe on the free speech rights of 170 million Americans who use the social media platform. He saw the ban as government overreach, and believes the vote represents a clear distinction between him and Jackson.
“How can you be so self-serving that you build your political platform on the strength of a social media platform so bad that you're prepared to cast a vote in the Congress to ban it?” Bishop said of Jackson.
North Carolina is one of 42 states currently suing Meta, which owns Facebook and Instagram. The lawsuit accuses Meta of addicting children by seeking to maximize the amount of time they spend on the platform. Stein and a bipartisan groups of attorneys general argue the social media exposure is predatory and comes at the expense of youth mental health.
I asked Bishop and Jackson if they’d keep North Carolina involved in the lawsuit.
Jackson replied, “I think Josh [Stein] has strong evidence for the argument his office is making. He's not saying we should ban these platforms, and neither would I, but he is calling for accountability, particularly for the impact they have on young people. And I think that's entirely fair.”
Bishop answered, “I don't have a command of all the details of what litigation is pending on that. I will say I think there is space for litigation in the consumer protection area with respect to certain social media platforms, conceivably if their algorithmic activity amounts to deceiving their subscribers.”
Political future
In North Carolina’s recent political history, the attorney general has often gone on to run for governor. In light of that, I sought to get some insight into both candidates’ future aspirations. I didn’t get very far in tracking down a direct answer from one of them.
Jackson declined to say whether he ultimately wants to become governor or hopes to pursue higher elected office. He instead took aim at Bishop.
“I'm running for this because I'm qualified and my opponent is not,” Jackson said.
Bishop noted he left a safe district in Congress to run for attorney general, while Jackson ran for AG after acknowledging he had become “toast in Congress” due to redistricting.
“He's running for this office as a consolation prize,” Bishop said.
After the interview, I asked Bishop’s campaign if he’d commit to not seeking higher elected office beyond AG.
Pat Ryan, a spokesman for Bishop, responded, “He commits to not seeking higher office.”
This is the latest installment in the Candidate Conversation series, which runs every Sunday between now and the election. If you have a candidate you’d like to hear from between now and the November election, please send me a note!
I'd like to hear Bishop's position on election denial. He seems weirdly obsessed with exonerating the J6 rioters from responsibility for police deaths....
Not the governor's office, NC congressional members, nor Jeff Jackson at his substack responded to my question about NC GS Chapter 147 6G, Divestment From Companies Boycotting Israel, that gives every appearance of legal violation in light of the July 2024 International Court of Justice ruling on Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine.
Bryan Anderson, can you shake out responses on positions from all related NC state and local office holders and candidates, and state party offices? For full disclosure for informed voters.
From the ICJ press release,
". . . all States are under an obligation not to recognize as legal the situation arising from the unlawful
presence of the State of Israel in the Occupied Palestinian Territory and not to render aid or
assistance in maintaining the situation created by the continued presence of the State of Israel in
the Occupied Palestinian Territory;"
https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/186/186-20240719-pre-01-00-en.pdf